Hi all

Quick intro before my question   I have been involved in working gundogs for 26+ years but only in the past 5 or so years been involved with showing and breeding, so I'm still very much a novice.  I keep 3 gundog breeds (don't think I'm allowed to say which!) and work all of them in the field plus now show them.

Now onto my question! I have recently received some info on Canine Ovulation Pads and I was wondering if anyone had ever used them and what kind of success you'd had with them?  The website for said pads is http://ovulationpads.info/

Any experience?  Good or bad?  Thank you.

No i have never tried them i have heard good and bad about them, i always always pre mate blood test my females which seems to work for me touch wood.

Yes I would normally blood test my bitches too but my vet doesn't stock the kits so I have to order a box of them which works out at around £100 a test - then I have to make a 220 mile round trip to get the sample to the laboratory if I want the result the same day.  While it's worth it to get a bitch in whelp, I saw these and thought maybe it was an alternative or something I could use along side relying on their body language.  With my next litter, my bitch will be going to a stud dog on the continent...this means I MUST know on the same day in order to get there in time.

You never know unless you try something...or ask for those who have tried it!

Hmm, interesting. I have use Matetel successfuly. I would be intersted to hear from anyone else that has used them

Matetel - that's the ferning saliva tool isn't it?  Can you tell me more about your experience of it?  All but one person I have spoken to about it says it's not reliable at all.

Air

Why dont you buy a box of tests yourself,they come in boxes of either 5 or 10 and are much less than £100.The test is extremely simple to do at home and only takes 30 mins

Alancourt - I'm confused...how can I do a blood test at home?

No i havent heard of doing a blood test at home neither?  A local vet to us do the pre-mate blood tests and give you the results within 2 hours, you are quite correct Air, if a vet cannot give you the results the same day it is pretty pointless having them done. our regular vet takes 3 days to give you results, no use whatever to us. We too go to Europe to a stud dog with our females, quite stressful, is she ready, will the dog mate her? we are getting ready soon to go to Germany with a female.  Is there no vet near you to do this pre-mate?
Best of luck with your litter

I,ve been talking to breeder friends, and they have had missed litters with these pads, wether they have used them correct i cannot comment, i will stick to what has worked for us.

Good luck

I used the MateTel successfully this year, got a strong ferning on day 8 had two good matings 48 hours apart and had 9 pups, our biggest litter ever!

Sorry, don't intend to sound rude, but why would anyone do a blood test or use ovulation pads?

I'm assuming that it's for people who don't have their own resident stud dog, is that correct? My dogs breeder has her own stud boys, and I too have mine for when the litter is planned for next year, hence the question and lack of knowledge on my part.  But seeing as I've been groomed over the last few years to take over the line (yikes), I'm interested to know. Ta.

I believe these pads are virtually the same as diabetic strips which you can get from the chemist considerably more cheaply.

My son did a final year thesis on the effectiveness of these stripa to pinpoint ovulation when he was in final year in vet college.   The results were definitely inconclusive.   

If you really are interested in these ovulation pads, I would ask the manufacturers for information on all the testing that has been done on them.

Edited to Koolcad (posts seem to have been posted at the same time!) - Very few breeders have their own stud dogs who are suitable 'nicks' for their bitches, and very many responsible breeders will travel hundreds, if not thousands of miles to get the best mating.    Hence any test which will attempt to pinpoint ovulation is a great tool.       But - so far - no tests guarantee a fertile successful mating resulting in a litter.   
Jo

I don't own stud dogs - all my dogs are bitches.  I have no interest in owning a dog puppy - I personally prefer my girls who are first and foremost members of my family - I just happen to work them and take the occassional litter from them so I can keep a puppy back to train up to also work in the field and show in the ring.  I want the best for my girls and like Jo says, I'll travel half way across the world to go to the BEST stud dog match for my girls - because of that, I need to be absolutely 100% sure they are ready to receive the stud dog which is the short ovulation window of about 5 days in the middle of a season.

So how do you manage the matings koolcad?

That's really interesting to know - thank you Jo. 

Hiya coolcad

We bloodtest because we take our females to Germany for our matings, and getting the correct day of ovulation is vital. It would be 1 hell of a wasted journey if we didnt get a mating.

Hi
I brought some of the ovulation pads for my girl in her last season. It was going to be her last litter and so wanted to get the timing right plus also wanted summer pups instead of winter ones for a change.

I ordered them a little late so when they arrived she was already on 12 (previously hasn't been ready until day 14/15) i did the test which is easy and it indicated that she would ovulate 48hrs later. We went along to the stud and had a good mating and then again 2 days later. Same stud as previous 2 times which we had 6 pups each litter

She missed and i was really upset, but there were other factors (ended up with cystitis) that could have prevented her from becoming pregnant so cant say for definite that these pads dont work. She is due in season now and typically keeping us waiting, but i will try these pads again as got some left and will use earlier.

Ah good luck this time then,  our females have been ready at different stages of their seasons also, thats why we do the blood tests, we take them around day 8 for the 1st 1, then go back until vet says they are ready, its not too expensive £15 a test, maybe we do 2 then set off for Germany and if needed get a test done over there,

I used it on a Cav and the 'ferning' showed she was ovulating and she had 5 pups. I used it because this bitch is usually arward to mate, so i thought I will try and get timing just right. All I can say is it worked

i might give them a try 1 day,

> So how do you manage the matings koolcad?

Well, as mentioned, I don't yet, but anticipate doing what my dogs breeder does, which is knowing when the bitch is in season and letting bitch and dog spend time together, which obviously results in multiple matings over a period of a number of days ... a system that's not failed!

However, I can well understand that if you don't have your own stud dog for your bitches, and particularly if travelling distances is involved, then the need to be more precise with timings is important.

Thanks.

Hello Koolcad

I hope I don't worry you too much, but I would never ever leave a dog and bitch together by themselves for multiple matings!      My dogs are extremely precious to me, and so much can go wrong with a mating, quite apart from the two dogs getting exhausted from trying.

The bitch can break the tie prematurely, resulting in serious damage to both her and the dog - possibly neither would ever be able to mate again.    The bitch could get aggresive to the dog, or vice-versa.

With correct timing, really only one good mating is required, although most of us prefer two spaced 48 hours apart.

Jo

I agree with Jo. With the added issue of not knowing a true due date. If allowed to mate freely over a number of days, how are you going to know when the due date is?

At least with controlled matings you have just a couple of days difference either side of the 63 day average.

> If allowed to mate freely over a number of days, how are you going to know when the due date is?

You guys had better tell my dogs breeder then ... a lady with 50 years of breeding exceedingly good dogs!!  The multiple matings bit is usually 2 or 3 and it's over a few day time scale - there isn't much more than this that the bitch is willing to stand for, not in my breed at any rate, don't know about other varieties.  So there's no problem with knowing the due date.  As we all know, the due date is just that ... a date when the pups are due - they can be earlier and they can be later, just as in humans, but within a few days is good for me. 

I'm not suggesting throwing 2 unknown dogs into a darkened room for a period of a few days and waiting to see what happens.  Sorry, I thought perhaps as a poster I might be given a bit of credit ;-(

As my initial post said, this was a question based purely on interest, I'm not saying using these things is incorrect, and I certainly wouldn't say not using them is incorrect and I hadn't planned to start a debate on the right way or the wrong way to breed ... as said, I take my cue from my breeder friend with 50 years experience and a very long waiting list of orders.  For my own personal breeding plan, I have no reason to want to change that aspect of things.  If my bitches tail goes to one side I'll know it's the time!

Hi Koolcad, just go with whatever works for you, everyone has their own little ways and methods, good luck with your matings, hope you get a litter, take care x

I also am very fortunate in that I am 65 years old now, and have more than 50 years experience with dogs.

It's a priviledge to have those years of experience,and also a priviledge to have access to all the up-to-date knowledge of breeding techniques and of genetics.    Both should be complimentary to each other, certainly I never stop learning from others.

Jo 

> I'm assuming that it's for people who don't have their own resident stud dog

I would imagine that few people would be using their own males most of the time, your really lucky or have a lot of different bloodlines if your own male suits your bitch better than the best dogs in the breed available to use.

I also have relied on the experience of the stud dog and behaviour of the bitch and like to have my bitches mated over a period of days.  If I have used a maiden dog then I have had them mated over a five day period.

I have used ovulation blood tests, but to be hones having the blood taken and then waiting on results is more trouble than taking a bitch to a stud a little before you think she is ready a nd leaving her there until she had been mated a few times.

My mentor rarely had bitches miss to her dogs as she liked to have the bitches early,a nd as a result her males learnt how to time bitches correctly and they would tell her when they were ready a nd lost interest wen they went over, because they were allowed to decide the timing.

I consider boarding the bitch part of the stud dogs owners job, especially when the stud fee as in my breed is the price of a puppy.

I am as confused as 'air'. How does one do a blood test at home. Sombody tell us

do the diabetic strips change colour, the same as these are supposed to???

I believe so  - they just turn a sort of purple when ovulation is occurring, and you serve 2-4 days later.    Was used by old flatcoat breeders, but not sure of the success rate.

Jo

well as the BM stix (diabetic strips) test for glucose is this whats being detected in the bitch in the blood loss??

The ovulation pads are gently inserted into the vulva and removed, if it changes colour then ovulation is 48hrs ahead.

Can you buy the BM stix over the counter without proving your diabetic or having a prescription?

Don't see why not - you're unlikely to overdose on Diastix, aren't you?

Jo

yes thats very true!

But do the ovulation pads check for change in blood glucose levels then as this is what BM stix do via the patient giving a small blood sample and then its read by a machine to determine the sugar levels. Not sure it changes colour, the only other thing that changes colour are the urine glucose strips that you pee onto to determine excess glucose in your system.

No - the Diastix strips detect glucose in urine, not blood.     We used them as you would 'ovulation pads', but not convinced.......

They're cheap enough on the internet - about £5 for 50 -  but not so cheap if you don't get a much hoped-for litter!

Jo

Why don't you try the progesterone test. A friend of mine has two in whelp from this test. He previously had bitches missing.
All you do is contact IDEXX, they send the sample test tubes and prepaid envelopes. You go to the Vet who takes the blood sample and then you post off and the next day you get a phone call telling you the results and when (if necessary to test again). The price is approx £25. They are able to work out how many days she is off ovulation to within about 2-3 days.
The contact is:
Idexx:-
Larry Roberts, Idexx Laboratories Ltd, PO Box 4, Wetherby, West Yorkshire LS22 7DN
Tel 01937 544000
Email : larry-roberts@idexx.com

Hope this is of some help.

Hi Alison

This is the same method our vet uses, we get the result in about 1 hour, not many vets do these tests though, it costs £25 for 1st test then cheaper each time you go back.
Hopefully off to Germany anyday with our female, nerve wracking times.

nerve wracking yes but at least things are happening - mine still to come into season and a week late, not much i know but when your trying to plan things its irritating.

They never come in season to fit in your plans, mine always do when it is almost impossible to make a long journey or vet calls back and says mate NOW, not that easy when you have to drive to Europe, especially all through the night.
Best of luck with your mating when she is in season.

Ahhhhhhh hubbys bags packed, female in car and was about to set off for Germany, just as he put his key in the ignition vets rang she not ready yet, the suspense is awful.

how long now ?  or are u on your way ? i do hope all goes well and theres a healthy litter in 9 weeks for you xxxx

yes they are on their way they has just gone through Antwerp, they are going to get our female blood tested in Castrop Rauxel, as we didnt want to test again in the Uk to be told mate her now,  hope she is ready my nerves are shattered, im just so worried they get to the dog and he wont mate her,
This will be her 4th blood test we did the 1st 1 at day 7 (knew she would be nowhere neady but wanted to start early)  2nd test was changing colour they said 3-5 days, 3rd test said the same 3-5 days mate her (her mum did the same then the last test said mate NOW) so hopefully today will say this, its a 12 hour trek to the dog this is why they set off yesterday, to be there when Bekki is ready.
Fingers crossed they call with good news later.
Wish i was going but with young puppies its impossible.

anymore news yet annastasia ? xx

Hi White Lilly

Yes my female was mated on tuesday night, they will only allow the 1 mateing, she was spot on no trouble,  being a maiden female also, now we must wait 4 weeks until my scan man can be called, nerve wracking times, fingers and everything crossed, expensive stud, if no babies.

Thanks for asking

Hope you don't mind me asking, but why only one mating?

I was wondering that - did you mean the dogs would only allow one mating, or the stud dog owner?

The stud dog owner, it is not uncommon to only get 1 mateing in Germany, especially on the top dogs, if the timing is right 1 mateing is enough,

and will you get another mateing next for nothing if this time it didnt work ? x

Yes, we only had 1 mateing with the mother of our female and she produced 9 puppies, fingers xd, i disappointed we only allowed 1, especially the distance we had to go, but we knew deep down we would only be allowed 1. we just wait and c now eh?

well got my fingers crossed for you x

I would be very unhappy with only being offered just one mating.

This is the same method our vet uses, we get the result in about 1 hour, not many vets do these tests though, it costs £25 for 1st test then cheaper each time you go back.
Hopefully off to Germany anyday with our female, nerve wracking times.

Hi Annastasia
where do you live? I cannot believe that your tests are so cheap I have just had onbe done on my bitch and it cost me just short of £80.... We ended up using the Matetel and hopefully we have good results. I too travelled all the way to Belgium just for the one mating so fingers crossed it was sucessful.