Shady has fantastic recall unless there is a cat in sight and then she just loses it completely and just can't seem to hear you.
I won't let her off anywhere but in this large fenced in playing field where the only openings are at each end and one of them has a gate.
Sometimes when we get to the field there is a black and white cat sitting by the hedge by the road, so I always take Shady back out and go for a walk round the roads first.
This morning it was there so she saw it and got frantic so we left immeadiatly and went off for a 40 min walk.
Came back to field, no cat so I let her off and threw her frisbee, she went got it and bought it back to me, threw it again she went got it and then half way back just dropped it and went full tilt to where the cat had been, only she didn't stop, she pushed straight through the hedge out onto the road so intent on finding the cat she could smell and not hearing me at all.
I legged it back down to the gate and out having visions of a car whizzing round the corner and hitting her, I was just calling and calling .
As I went to cross the road I went to call her as she shot out of someones driveway but a car flew round the corner so I didn't want to make her run to me, she hesitated looked at me and then ran off further up the road looking for this cat. I flagged the driver to slow down, got accross the road and yelled she appeared again hesitated then came nearly too me before going to head off again, I just managed to somehow lunge forward and gsab her and get her back on lead.
I was shaking at this point and just burst into tears, put her in the car and came home.
She has never done this before and now I am worried that now she knows she can she will do it again, so I feel I can't let her off and she really needs a run as she has so much energy.
I have got a longline, but I end up in such a tangle with it. I tried to use it a couple of times previously when we have been somewhere else that I didn't want her running free but wanted to give her some freedom. But we seem to end up in a tangle and last time she had a little run it got caught round her front leg and when her 40kg weight hit the end she was pulld to the floor by her front leg and ended up limping on it for a good week.
Is there any tips you can give me for using it without it getting round her legs and injuring her again as it scared me that I could have broken her leg so easily.
I would just feel happier if she played frisbee attatched to me for a while to get this out of her head.

What an awfull fright, I'm so glad Shady came to no harm.

>Is there any tips you can give me for using it without it getting round her legs and injuring her again as it scared me that I could have broken her leg so easily.

I use a long line as I never let Buster off-lead, I got myself all tangled up the first few times I used it and managed to get it tangled around Busters legs, but now I find it no probs. Firstly make sure you have it attatched to a harnes (chest harness), due to the whip-lash effect of having it on a collar if the dog gets to the end of the lead. Also, keep the slack up (I find it easier with a slight tension on the line) and get used to feeding the slack out and looping it back in. The easiest thing I have found is if Buster wants to run is I run with him!! but, he has ED and is not the most energetic of dogs, so the run is only a short burst (say 10yds).
Hopefully you'll get some more tips.

Oh dear what a fright, i am so sorry to hear that, it has happened to sparky before, running for cats, and i have been at my wits end thinking he is going to get run over, and especially being so small, he is hard to see!

Glad everything was ok!!

What a horrible fright you had, I can see why this would put you off.

I don't have much advice about a line as I have generally only used one only in a confined space but I can appreciate what you mean about getting tangled.  I have occasionally used one is whilst walking a particular route where there are often sheep. One of mine is a chaser so I keep it attached just in case he sees them before I do but this is only whilst walking not running and playing.  I use a flexi for him in areas where I can't trust him not to chase; he gets to mooch about quite freely but within a safe distance and still on a lead.  As it's retractable it doesn't get tangled and if you are careful about the length of your throw you can still play frisbee or fetch.

Dogs seem to have an amazing memory for where things were.  This same dog would always do the same things on the same walk and for years would check the tree where he once nearly caught a squirrel.  Even several years later after moving house we did the walk again and he still looked!  You say that your dog has good recall but that you only let her off in one place.  Is there somewhere else you could go?  One person on here recently suggested playing, or practising recall in an enclosed tennis court - great if you have one.

Alternatively could you walk the boundary first, with her on lead, so that you could see if the cat was there, or she could see that it had run away?  Would she then relax and play without keep looking for the cat?

My terrier cross is a chaser, and I'm reconciled to that - it just means that we have to cover more mileage on the lead or be very careful about where we walk.  Some of our farmers have guns and strongly worded notices but luckily most of the livestock goes inside or close to the farms for the winter so I don't have the anxiety all year.  My gundog wouldn't even look at a sheep thank goodness as it was a big reason for choosing him.  Many dogs will instinctively chase a running cat and although very good recall and emergency down has to be the objective there will always be the odd time when you can't call them off or back, don't beat yourself up about it. 

What a shock for you.

Just a warning regarding long lines/extending leads. I can't let Hattie of the lead due to her issues with other dogs and have tried to use long lines and extending leads in the past. She only weighs around 30kgs and I am quite solidly built, but she can take off at full speed in the blink of an eye and I have nearly had my arm wrenched out of its socket before now as she hits the end of the lead at full pelt, no time to think about bracing myself. I've also lost grip as she's hit the end of the lead and she's whizzed off with the extender trailing behind her. I don't know how calm Shady is, but it just isn't possible to use anything longer than about 10ft with lunatic Hattie (bunge leads help a little)!

I do have a large extra long flexi lead for her but I don't like it as the handle is so big if she took off I know i wouldn't be able to hang onto it securely and I think that clanging on the floor behind her would really spook her as she is very highly strung.
Sadly I don't have a tennis court or access to one.
I do always walk her round the field first on lead, but as that cat is in and out of the field all day if its been there not long before we get there she gets its scent over near the hedge so I don't let her off for a while and until now she has been ok.
This time the cat had gone but she got the scent and shot through the hedge where it goes and off on her search for it.
I have a JRT too and I walk the dogs seperatly as the JRT has never had a recall (my first dog in 35 years of owning dogs that I can't teach recall too).  He is walked on the longer flexi but his handle is much smaller and he doesn't weigh 40kg like her only 6kg so he is easy on a flexi.
I feel really down about this as we both loved the game of frisbee over the field and she really does need a good run to wear off her energy and this worked perfectly, within 10 mins she was puffing and panting for England and completely shattered.

It's the worst feeling in the world when they run off like that, so stressful.

Is your garden big enough for a good game before you go?  If you could release all her pent up energy first she might be less reactive.  It could have been that the cat was watching from the hedge and your girl saw the movement.  Might also be better to change your walk for a few days so your girl is just looking forward to the walk instead of looking forward to finding the cat.

I have often had that sinking feeling when spotting a cat on our walks as I know mass hysteria will break out.  Of course they have every right to hang out where they please but I swear they sometimes have that smug look on their faces when winding the dogs up. 

My hubby was out with our 3 dogs the other day, (2 Rotties and a Cocker), and two of them ran off after a deer - only the Rottie pup came back when recalled.  The other 2 were out of sight for about 20 minutes, and obviously hubby was frantic.

I can't really offer any advice, but I know that we will now walk our dogs on a different route for a few weeks, so they don't have the chance to run off again in the same area.
So pleased your dog was OK - our first Rottie chased after a squirrel one day when we were out, and he ended up falling off a railway bridge, and had to be PTS....

If you are worried about dropping a lead or long line attach it to your waist with a belt or one of the specially designed dog leads that go around your waist.

Personally, I think that is just as dangerous, Jackie. A 40kg dog, running at full speed then hitting the end of the lead will, in all probability, pull you off your feet and I'm sure the resulting jarring to you back wouldn't be good.

> A 40kg dog, running at full speed then hitting the end of the lead will, in all probability, pull you off your feet and I'm sure the resulting jarring to you back wouldn't be good.

You can't bring a big dog to a sudden stop, but you can bring it to a gradual stop when it bolts to the end of a long-line, you just need to be aware of your dogs behaviour (on the look-out for the signs he's gonna leg-it) and use the right tecnique. My Mastiff is over 70 kilos and I can stop him when he's going like a train, I sort of squat a bit (lowers your centre of gravity so there is less chance of you being pulled over), lean back on the strain of the line and use you legs to slow down, it does take a couple of steps forward but I have perfected it to a fine art now
All this is a last resort though as I have taught him that 'no pull' means stop tension on the line, he can run without pulling me, but sometimes gets a bit carried away!!

> Personally, I think that is just as dangerous, Jackie. A 40kg dog, running at full speed then hitting the end of the lead will, in all probability, pull you off your feet and I'm sure the resulting jarring to you back wouldn't be good.

But you have control, you would not let it do that if it and you were attached.

I agree Pedlee

my 20 KG pup can have me (OK - TRUTH - has had me ) pulled over when suddenly charging off to the end of his training lead in the park/beach.   I think the answer to long lines whether or not attached to the body is that all the basic commands are well learned first - except of course for recall which is IME the most likely cause for using a line in the first place

Incidentally, pup with older sister both had me on my butt recently - a combined weight of less than 40KGs - when I've used the lean back and brace myself method and they've decided to stop dead instead   

I really need to put into practice all my training tips don't I

> But you have control

LOL Nova - if only

Unfortunately it's not a given IMO (see above )  Dogs, no matter how well trained and normally well behaved can be unpredictale - tis the nature of the beast.  Sometimes something gets the better of them and whereas we thought we had perfect recall we hadn't reckoned on something unusual appearing or happening in the less than immediate vicinity and off goes the 'perfect' pooch.  It may never happen to some dogs, or even some owners, but IMO that's because as yet they haven't met the distraction that will put all that hard work belly up

Recall is and always has been very very important to me and as I think I said earlier I have never until my JRT had one that didn't have instant recall whatever situation we have been in.   He despite trying every method I can have failed dismally to have him have a good enough recall to trust him off lead. 
Shady has always had excellent recall except obviously where cats are concerned so I have never let her off when a cats been around.
She does have a very high prey drive and is a very anxious type of highly strung dog.
I do suffer with back and joint problems so attaching her to my waist would definatly be a no no as my back has problems getting me up and down from sitting or laying position let alone having the weight of a 40kg dog coming to the end of a leash at full pelt attached to it.
I have trained dogs for years and years but nothing however tempting can get her to focus on me instead of a cat, she just completely loses the plot.
I really am starting to feel like a failure at the moment and doubting myself.
I took her out for an hour and a half for her second walk this morning and we went to the field to do some training with liver and cheese for reward.  Cat wasn't there but she wasn't listening as she wanted to get over there.  I tried taking her over there to see it wasn't there but it obviously had been as she was whining and dashing from side to side trying to get over the ditch to where she got through, the liver and cheese made no impression, I turned and walked smartly off the other way jerking her round with me  but she still whined and carried on till we got to the other end of the field where I got some half decent work out of her, although she did still keep watching up that end and I know had I let her off she would have gone like a bullet.
We then finished off with a walk over the farmland and woods at the back.  I tried her on the flexi for this but my hand got all hot and slippery hoiding the handle so I had to switch her back to her normal lead.
I think when I do her 3rd walk this afternoon I will take the training lead as it is a bit longer than a normal lead but not so long she can set off at top speed and I can hang onto that while giving her a bit more freedom to sniff.
Only problem is without her game of frisbee she is still full of energy.

Hi Bev

this is clearly very stressful for you and I don't have an immediate answer.  What does occur to me on reading your posts through is that you do a LOT of walking with your dog, perhaps this in part is contributing to the problem ....

Have you tried some mental workouts to help take the edge off before going out for physical exercise?  Could you perhaps set up some training equipment in the garden and do some tricks, obedience and agility to give her brain some work as well as her body?  Perhaps if you could do more of this and fairly often then you could cut down a little on the physical side as it may be that your current routine is possibly building up her stamina to need more and more running off lead than you could (or should) be doing with her.

I know if my breed gets 3 hours a day they'd soon need 4, with 4 then would spell the need for 5 and so on whereas some mind games and playing with one another in the garden means that exercise can be kept at around 1.5 to 2 hours a day and also helps the girls cope with much less if necessary (when in season for eg.)

Just a thought
regards Teri

I agree with you there Teri. Hattie is only "out" for about an hour a day, but I generally do some agility/obedience with her when I get back from the walk, which exercises mind and body. She is always ready for more, if she is just walked, and I could walk miles and miles before she tired. 10-15 minutes in the garden and she's zonked! Playing with the others also helps.

Hey ! Teri,  Can just imagine Midas pulling you over the sand on your front LOL!!!! Will get the binoculars out next time you go to the beach LOL!!!!!!!

Irene

LOL - he's not nicknamed MadAss for nowt Irene (but then you've seen him in action )  Just as well I've got soft sand to land on!

LOL makes me sound good all that walking doesn't it but its not normally all that.
I have to walk my dogs seperatly so they get 20 mins lead walk round the block at approx 6.30 am, then on a Tue, Wed and thur Shady gets 10mins mad frisbee playing to wear off all the excess energy and then we go for a quiet lead walk for approx 20 mins.  Milo gets 40 min walk on his extending lead over the fields. The other days its 10 mins frisbee playing on the second walk, with 15 min walk round the block and then home in the car and milo 30-40 mins on extending lead.
They don't always go out again in the afternoon if they do  its only for a 20 min on lead walk or we play ball or with toys in the garden.
The garden is very small though (estate garden) and they only get half of it now for the winter which we have slabbed as they just rip up what little grass we have and turn it into a mud bath.
I do play mind games though and hide treats around although these are quite limited as my JRT suffers with all manner of allergies,  I try and hide toys too but Milo is much cleverer and quicker than Shady and before she gets going he has done everything.  I have taught Shady a short dance sequence and we will do little training bits here and there.
We did go to training club and agility but sadly she got nipped a few times and got anxious there and ended up fear aggresive towards other dogs, which I have been working over the past couple of years to put right and we are getting there with that.  Agility she didn't really enjoy but my JRT loves it.
I am thinking of getting a trainer out for a one to one session  as soon as I can afford it as although I have trained dogs for years it does help to have someone from the outside looking in and to give fresh insight and views and hopefully see something you can't or come up with ideas you havn't thought of.522

do have a large extra long flexi lead for her but I don't like it as the handle is so big if she took off I know i wouldn't be able to hang onto it securely and I think that clanging on the floor behind her would really spook her as she is very highly strung.

When I was using a flexi lead due to my terrier having temporarily lost all knowledge of what recall was I put the normal dog lead through the handle and clipped it back onto itself so I could hold the lead handle instead of the cumbersome flexi handle. It was easier to hang on to and didn't pull out of my hand on those occasions when Cooper flung himself forward at 90mph in pursuit of those darned autumn leaves that just had to be put in their place

DO NOT make the mistake I did though and loop the lead handle round your wrist - 5 stone of Golden Retriever hitting the extended line at full pelt guarantees that you and attached dog take off and fly a goodly distance through the air and hit the ground with a resounding thump and to add insult to injury I was then jumped on by aforementioned GR who thought we were all enjoying a great game. It caused me a fair bit of damage but luckily none at all to my smaller dog who was  wearing a harness at the time. My GR learnt a few new words though

LOL! What a wonderful picture Harley, I hope nobody was watching!

Most embarrassing moments would not occurr if there was not a full complement of onlookers to complete the picture

It was lucky really that there were other people around because I would never have found my glasses which took off in the other direction to me. I had a huge bruise on my face, a shoulder that wouldn't work properly for a week or more, grazed hands and knees but also the unstinted affection of a very wet and muddy GR who just adored our game of stuck-in-the-mud. I did avoid walking in that area for the next couple of weeks due to the embarrassment factor