Sorry if this has been covered in another thread and I have missed it.  My husband I only read about this in last week's shooting times (a bit out of the loop at the moment - keep having babies - 2 legged ones!) but I just wondered whether their plans to make the Accredited Breeder scheme mandatory included people who breed non-KC recognised breeds?  We keep and breed 2 KC-recognised breeds, for work and show, but we also keep a non-KC breed, as do a few of my very best friends.  If it was to be made a legal requirement to join the ABS, what does that mean for non-KC breeds?

Kay x

>If it was to be made a legal requirement to join the ABS, what does that mean for non-KC breeds?

Apparently so - and for crossbreeds and mongrels as well. The intention is that all breeders of all puppies throughout the country would legally be required to be ABs.

This is only what the KC are proposing.  Personally, I think it is very unlikely that the Government would grant these powers as it would be extremely difficult to enforce but if it did happen, whilst agreeing with you that people should be able to breed crossbreeds, hopefully purposeful crossbreeds , I don't see why that cannot be incorporated under the same rules of health screening, identification of parents etc.

Totally agree, what with all the designer crossbreeds now all the fashion. And I know it's nowhere near the statute books yet, I just wondered, say if it were to become illegal to breed unless you dogs were KC registered (an ABS requirement), does that mean anyone who breeds, say, working sheepdogs or patterdale terriers would have to register their stock on the KC working dog register, in order to be eligible to join the ABS.  I wonder if they've thought about that.  I know for one that a certain Mr R.I. at the top of the KC, knows I keep KC recognised terriers and non KC rec. terriers.  Can just imagine the faces of all the non KC working dog folk who are completely anti-KC having to register their dogs!

Kay x

It seems possible, though not very likely (because of the almost inevitable recession) for some time if it involves any significant element of cost, that there will be major changes in the next few years regarding dog breeding; whether that involves all dogs being registered on a new KC registry or on a new Government registry with a new dog licencing system, remains to be seen. For some people it will be the devil or the deep blue sea!

Yes that's what I was thinking.  It sounds likes they've got big ideas in their heads but one wonders how much it is all purely for the good of dogs and how much it is to improve the KC's reputation and add funds to their coffers.  And I'm far from anti-KC.  Lets just hope that the future of dog ownership remains as pleasurable and rewarding for genuine, caring dog folk as it's always done, despite not being able to afford to do nearly as much as I'm sure many, including myself, used to be able to do. 

Kay x

> It sounds likes they've got big ideas in their heads but one wonders how much it is all purely for the good of dogs and how much it is to improve the KC's reputation and add funds to their coffers.

I think it is more a case that they are anticipating a push to introduce breeding legislation by other agencies and they are putting themselves forward as the best body to adminster such schemes. 
I appreciate there are some people who consider the KC are bad for working breeds but I don't think there is any suggestion that this registration system would require them to show their dogs or to conform to any "standard" set by the KC. Not that the KC do not allow breed clubs to set their own standards where ever those standards are not detrimental to the dogs so I do feel that fear is unfounded these days.
I certainly don't think anyone should regard this as a money making scheme as the KC is non profit making and any extra reserves all go to the benefit of dogs in general ie health research, good ownership promotion etc. 
If the Government do decide regulation is required the other likely candidate for administration as far as I can see would be Defra.

Umm, I agree with you there Isabel.  The future does all sound a little scary.  I find it easier to stand back and look at the whole picture unlike many people I'm friends with in breeds not linked with the KC and I fear that they will oppose the KC's good intentions and look at it somewhat blindly.  I have even had to convert my husband from being anti-KC! It would be difficult but I hope when/if the time comes, the whole dog community can stick together to avoid government intervention that would only serve to please the anti dog breeding/showing/pedigree and to a degree, the working dog world.

Thanks for your responses,
Kay

Try waving Defra at them

If it could be made legislation it could have a really big impact on puppy farming and Backyard Breeding (all those poor pups in the freeads)

Just as an aside, I was thinking the other day, if breeding were totally prohibited in a particular breed, how long would it take for that breed to disappear entirely? 12-13 years or so I guess.

Kat

> if breeding were totally prohibited in a particular breed, how long would it take for that breed to disappear entirely? 12-13 years or so I guess.
>

In the case of the pit bull it has taken longer than 17 years with no sign of it happening yet which rather demonstrated the difficulties of enforcing these restrictions.

I'm not really aware of the current system, but a mandatory scheme would be a bit Big Brotherish (as in 1984, not Jade Goody!). It assumes a one size fits all for every dog in the country, and could only possibly work if the requirements were so general as to be pointless.

Surely a voluntary scheme for non-KC registered breeds and cross-breeds would be much better, which was really well advertised on TV and in magazines. That way, a responsible cross-breeder would be able to advertise that they meet KC standards in their breeding programme, and puppy farmers would be easier to spot as they wouldn't be able to say they were accredited. The advertising would encourage everybody to ask their breeder to show their certificate. If they falsely claimed they were and showed a fake certificate then a buyer would have a claim against them in court.

If someone didn't want to be a member of the scheme, they could still breed, but would have to explain to buyers why they feel that their controls are just as stringent as the KC's, but may be more appropriate for their breed.

Isabel, no I meant if it was accepted by everyone just how long would it take. I know that as you say with the pit bull 'type' it will never happen, and legislation/enforcement is in reality impossible to do.  It was just one of those idle thoughts that crosses your mind (well mine anyway )