We have a new chocolate lab puppy.  We got her at 7 weeks of age, she's now just over 14 weeks.  She seems to be coming along with her potty training but...
We have allowed her on the couch and chairs.  However, when we are eating on the couch we don't allow her up.  She is VERY stubborn and insists on coming up so we have a battle of the wills which I eventually win...or not.  She will then stay off the couch but will urinate on the carpet in front of us.  She did it twice last night.  Today I put her and our Terv outside while I vacuumed because she thinks it's a game and I can't do it with her in the house.  She watched through the window, jumped on the door and scratched the window while I told her NO!  When I was finished, I let them in and she urinated on the carpet.  I feel she is being very defiant and letting me know she's in charge.  Is this a dominance issue?  I think I created the problem because she is confused about when she is allowed on the furniture and when she's not.  She wants to do what she wants to do when she wants to do it and we're not supposed to tell her no.  Any ideas?  Thanks.
Diane

Hi Diane, cogratulations on your new puppy

Its neither dominance or defiance.. its simply being puppy... house training can take longer with some pups than others,,, she probably still doesnt know the difference between inside and out...

Taking her outside every hour or so, and loads of praise when she has completed her business will help the process along, but you still need to expect accidents until around the 6months mark... the fact that she is doing it right in front of you, has nothing to do with it.. she simply doesnt know that YOU think its wrong.. pups dont do wrong.. they just do whats natural until trained.

Labs are also very people orientated, and its understandable that she will jump and scratch to get back in while she can see you... is there any way that you could set up a crate for her, and allow her to use that while you have those nasty little housework jobs to do.. this way she is still in the room with you, but out of harms way while you are working around her..

she is only a baby, and you need to be patient, but consistant with her training.. I have had Lab pups who have been clean from around 10weeks.. but others have taken till around 5 months.. none have ever been the same, yet all trained in the same manner.. some just take a little longer than others..

14 week old puppies aren't dominant, and dogs have no idea of spite - peeing on the carpet as punishment just doesn't come into it.

> We have allowed her on the couch and chairs.  However, when we are eating on the couch we don't allow her up.  She is VERY stubborn and insists on coming up so we have a battle of the wills which I eventually win...or not.

This is confusing for her, ideally she should either be allowed on the furniture or not - consistency is very important to all dogs

> She will then stay off the couch but will urinate on the carpet in front of us

Probably all the excitement of the battle over the sofa, when pups are active they need the loo

> Today I put her and our Terv outside while I vacuumed because she thinks it's a game and I can't do it with her in the house.  She watched through the window, jumped on the door and scratched the window while I told her NO!

It's perfectly natural for her to want to be with you, telling her NO means nothing to her

> When I was finished, I let them in and she urinated on the carpet

That's why you have to go outside with puppies, to wait outside with them until they've been to the toilet and make a big fuss of them.

She's still very much a baby, and doesn't have much control of her bladder at 14 weeks - I think my collie pup was still peeing every hour at that stage (or at least that what it felt like!). I really don't think this is a dominance issue

Just remember to give her clear rules, and the whole family has to stick to them. Watch her like a hawk and if she starts to sniff the carpet take her outside. Take her straight outside every time she wakes, after she's eaten or drank and also at least every hour while she's active. Stay outside with her and make a huge fuss whenever she goes outside and you'll definitely win the house train battle soon

Also make sure there is no lingering smell on the carpet, biological soap powder is excellent for cleaning accidents.

humpfff it took me so long to type my reply Kay that you beat me to it

I take it you do not let her on the sofa whilst eating due to the fact she is after your food.

Quite simple to correct............ eat at the table. (There we go that is you trained ) If you prefer not to do that then pop your pup in the kitchen with a dog gate whilst you eat, it will save all the confusion and mix messages, at 14 weeks the pup does not know if she is coming or going, it is hard enough for them to understand what is required of them without sometimes can, sometimes can't.  When she is much older and she understands all of your basic commands you will be able to teach her Off!  She will need to know that for removing herself from the sofa when you have visitors etc.  All commands need to be backed up with a treat or a big fuss when they get it right so that they understand they have done good, labs are usually food orientated so you should have no problems there.

(There we go that is you trained  ) LOL

I have a 10 week old at the moment. She has been really good at toilet training...however....although she is going to the door to go out for the toilet, I watched her the other night just get up and walk across the lounge and go for a wee (she did it twice that same night). She just looked at me as if to say' what's the problem'. You have to make sure that you follow them out and see them perform. It is just at that age that they sometimes forget what they went outside for. Hard isn't it, especially in this wet weather.!!!!

Awww I love chocolate labs

She is VERY stubborn and insists on coming up so we have a battle of the wills which I eventually win

I reckon its more a case of she is usually allowed up there to snuggle with you so why isnt she now when you've got tasty food as she wants some too lol!
Dogs dont understand that when were eating/cross stitching on the sofa etc we sometimes dont want them around as dogs couldnt gove a monkeys about all that in their world lol

She sounds like a typical cheeky puppy testing her boundaries in a typical cheeky but very cute way

Our boy Turbo tried all this when he was a puppy as let both our dogs on the sofa or on our laps (Their staffords but think their lap dogs lol) and just being consistant with the same command stopped him, We chose the command 'Off' as it works for alot more things then down etc and you have to make sure everyones following the same rules or the pup will get confused but Turbo soon figured out 'Oh when their eating/drinking etc its time to leave them alone, but when their not its PLAY TIME!!!!!'' lol

I agree Kayc, she just needs clear guidelines from the start.

Enjoy your new pup

I agree i think pup is testing you.
Iwould stop allowing pup on your sofa for starters...we love our girls to bits but the sofa is out of bounds.
If you correct them from an early age you will go along nicely.
I also found that if they weed on the carpet in that day...they would try and go there again that day...just habbit i put it down to..that needs correcting quickly by you watching like a hawk.
Good luck with new pup.

Hi Kay,
I think I accidentally pushed a wrong key and you got a partial reply from me.  Sorry.  Anyway, as I was saying, I do follow her out to go potty and lavish all kinds of praise on her when she does go outside.  We have been having very few mistakes and I understand how they can happen as she is still young.  But the times that she looked at me and went, I just had to think she was saying "take that for not letting me up there with you" and "I wanted to play with that vacuum".  I will crate her in another room the next time I'm going to vacuum rather than having her watch me and get angry with me.  Maybe that will avoid that problem.  Thank you again for your kind response and helpful ideas.  I'll keep working on it. 

Diane

GRRReetings,
Thank you for your response.  As I told Kay, I do take her outside and lavish praise on her when she goes.  I really think she knows the difference at this point, but I do give her the benefit of the doubt on that.  I just was sure she looked at me and did it in front of me as punishment for my not allowing her up on the couch and not playing with the vacuum.  The thing is, I have had other puppies and I just don't remember this kind of behaviour.  Maybe I forgot, but this really got to me.  I will continue to go outside with her and praise the good times. 
Thanks again,
Diane

GRRReetings Carrington,
Ah ha!  Eat at the table.  What a novel idea   Very cute response and well taken.  We really should, but many times we like to eat on the couch while watching football etc.  OFF is the word I'm trying to teach.  I've done a lot of obedience training in my lifetime and always use OFF for that.  I guess it is kind of hard for her to understand why sometimes she can be on the couch and other times not.  We do just need to be consistent with that.  We'll work on it.  Thanks again for your response!
Diane

GRRReetings AlisonGold,
Thank you for that response.  It's nice to know that you've experienced something similar.  I feel better about that part now.
Diane

Hi Dexter,
Thank you for the response.  I'm taking it all to heart and am so glad to hear there are others with similar experiences. 

Diane

GRRReetings Goldie,
Thank you for your response.  I really want her to be allowed on the sofa.  I just have to continue to work on the OFF command so she understands.  She is a very smart little girl so I'm sure it won't take long for her to understand the difference.  I am so grateful for everyone's responses.  Now I know there are others out there who understand, have had similar experiences and I can get input in the future.  Now it's back to the training. 

Diane

Sometimes dogs and puppies try to avoid going out for a pee if it's cold or wet, much warmer inside LOL. 

Cold weather can increase the frequency too, something I can testify to

I sure your little one will get the hang of it soon

Just remember dogs don't have emotions like we do, they won't deliberately do something to annoy you.  My male Rottie as a pup would do a wee in front of me every 10 - 15 mins...that boy just couldn't control his bladder lol!!  Anyway, he soon grew out of it and was toilet trained in no time.

I would for the time being not allow your pup on the sofa and before you are ready to eat pop the pup outside for a wee and then once she's back in settle her with a chew or toy etc and leave her in that room while you eat elsewhere.  Interact with her again once food is finished with.

Good luck and enjoy your little pup.

I always tell people when getting a puppy always start as you mean to go on what is cute and funny at 8 weeks is not so funny when they weight 34 Kilos.
Jumping up is the worst and pulling the amount of  labs especially in our rescue have been started off wrong and by 10 months almost unmanageable.
So rules begin as soon as the pup comes home.
I never encourage pups on furniture or to go up stairs we always have a baby gate,  if I want a pup on my knee thats fine but when then they go back down with a firm word of your choosing  the word Down or Off and stay make sure all the family use the same commands, also try a  gundog whistle to call him back when small then when he is big its simple when out walking.
Also I always use a slip rope lead .........and start them very early with this first in the house then garden etc.. just a few minutes all my labs and my Giant Schnauzer walk lovely on the lead no pulling at all.

We have a terrible time with some rescue dogs pulling  some are like total juvenile delinquents and we have to restart lead training.
So baby steps with the pup and learning all the time,firm and kind its fun for the pup and you will have a  nice trained dog.

No Problems Diane, we all hit the key before ready a times...

I was just thinking this morning... I have 2 Lab pups here.. one boy at 18 weeks, and a girl at 10 weeks.. this difference is quite astounding...

The boy was clean and dry, the day after bringing him home (he is a son of my Hunter), we had a crate accident overnight.. and thats it...

The Girl is completely different... I have to work on her... I need to get up during the night, or I come through to accidents in the morning...

During the day.. the two pups are alternatively crated, so they dont play rough (boy is quite big now) and to give the little one some quiet time on her own...

She will look at me with those eyes you know, and just widdle.. ... now.. we KNOW that dogs/puppies dont think in human terms.. and I think this is similar to what your girl is doing.. she looks at you and widdles in front of you... could this be her way of letting you know she needs out.. as in.. Muuum.. I need to go... oops, not anymore lol...

My girl has not learned to go to the door yet.. she has only been here 5days.. so its very early.. but I wonder if you are also lifting her and carrying her outside to toilet.. if you are.. this may be why she is missing 'the door instruction'... I find that if I carry them out.. it can take a little longer, than encouraging them to follow me out through the door.. of course it natural that mid piddle we grab pup and run lol....

I dont allow my pups on the sofa's.. (I do allow when older, when they can be told 'off' with immediate results)... I spent a lot of time on the floor with puppies.. they can sit on my lap, cuddle in etc.. they learn that when I am on the sofa.. its MY time... I dont have a dining table.. I eat meals sitting on the sofa.. but while they are real youngsters, I spend most of 'my dining time' training to 'down' and eating cold meals, and they eventually learn that I dont mind them lying at my feet.. they dont annoy me for food.  Its all training.. its hard work, but worth every effort ...

We all have times when we think .... 'Little s*d' lol.. and swear they are finely tuned to wind us up...

I can however lend you my 3year old Ollie (spawn of satan) for a week or so.. your little one will seem perfect in comparison lol... I swear Ollie has a off button somewhere.. but yet to find it

good luck

Roxi took well it's seem like ages to toilet train, then one day it just clicked Dexter was very quick, a few weeks, with the odd accident. Roxi i think was a good few months before it just clicked into place!!

Enjoy your puppy