I'm looking for a breeder of fox red labrador retrievers, if anyone could help?

Strictly speaking Labradors only come in Yellow, Black & Liver. I'm sure that this subject has come up before and that it was said that some of the Yellows can be very Red but I can't remember and as Red is not a reconised colour, in the UK, I'm not sure where to advise you to look. Hope someone who does know will post for you, but don't forget that health & temperment is more important than colour. Ja:)kie

Hi Jackie you`re right,it`s just the different shades of yellow they have with some darker than others. Red is not a shade recognised anywhere as far as I know & think the poster should just look for darker shades. Again, like other *rare colours* I think that red labs might have been used for exploiting people.
Christine, Spain

My brother and his family have a golden ret. that is almost red in color. He's a daft dog, but gorgeous!

Hi Quinn,

It used to be that the really rich reddy Golden Retrievers were off the working strain. The show strain was mostly paler. The darker coloured ones were always nice.
Dot

"Labrador coat colour " wholly black,yellow,liver/chocolate yellow ranging from lightcream to fox red small white spot on chest permissable.

Breed standard

Fox red is an old fashioned colour many dogs were this colour and quite a few working labs.

Thanks Dot, I learned somthing new today!

There ARE fox red Labradors; at least, I can tell you that there are in the U.S. Whether or not one considers them to be simply "darker" versions of the yellow Lab is irrelevant. They look completely different from your standard yellow or cream Labrador -- their coat is approximately the color of an Irish Setter.

They are rather hard to find, but if you do a search for "Fox Red Lab" or "Fox Red Labrador" on google.com, you will find many web pages with pictures.

Well let hope the person looking for one lives in the US. In the UK we only have yellow, black & liver/chocolate. Ja:)kie

Same here Jackie.
Christine, Spain

I did a job for someone in the summer who had just won a working test and in the write up I did for her, she asked that her dog be described as a "fox red labrador" and looking at the picture in front of me, its an apt description! Its Dellfleet bred if that helps!

Jackie they do have fox red labs in this country as I mentioned above the shades of yellow go to fox red
which is more of a burnished gold colour one breeder I know of in Scotland had some lovely labs this colour and they were working dogs too so dual purpose so the standard classes them as yellow they are fox red.

Yes I know Mattie, I was just replying to the post above that insisted that it was not a shade of Yellow but a definate colour, and that the dogs look quite different to the yellow Lab. I think because they had found them decribed as such on webb pages. And they may be bred for that colour in the US as stated but I don't know of anyone in the UK breeding for the red colour, but, of course, I don't know everyone who is breeding Labs. Supose if in the USA Labs are being bred for the colour it is possible that it has changed the look of the Lab too because some genes are linked so it is possible that the gene for "red" coat carries with it other charateristics. Ja:)kie

Sorry jackie I must have miss read your post.
I'm not a geneticist (spelt wronge probably) but I would imagine its very difficult to breed one particular shade as you can have different shades in a single little of labs I once had 12 puppies, 4 yellows 8 blacks 2 of the yellows were very pale almost cream and the other two were very dark yellow,this litter being by a black bitch and a black dog.
The second litter she had was again to a black dog but he was dominant black and she had 12 again all black. she never had another litter as I thought at that time 24 pups to be enough .

Thistle is a yellow lab, but she is really dark, like ginger . In fact she has exactly the same colour hair/fur as me and my teenage daugters, so not only is she a super little dog but a fashion accessory too!! She is a working strain and also very finely built (unlike me sadly ).
Jane

Hi Matti, suppose if I was going to try I would look for a very red/yellow with dark dogs as far back in the pedigree as possible and the same for the stud, two of each would be best so as to cut down on the amount of in-breeding you would have to do. If you kept mating the best pups to the best pups and hope that the colour did not bring a health problem with it, then within a few generations I would have thought that you would start to get at least some in each litter. I don't know off hand how predominent the red gene may be without looking it up. And as I would never even consider doing such a thing, even if I was young enough and had enough money, as I can think of a lot of more important things I would wish to work on, were I able. Ja:)kie

I BREED FIND THE WEB SITE THAT TALKS ABOUT COLORS AND RATIOS ITS PRETTY MUCH ON IT SQUIRLEY

Welcome to the forum Squirely, please take your CAPS LOCK off. It makes your posts very hard to read. Thank you

IM GUESSING YOUR DOG IS A INSIDE DOG . THEY TURN RED TONED UNLESS THEY SPEND ALOT OF TIME OUTSIDE BUT WHO WANTS TO DO THAT????

Hi all thats what I meant as well, that the fox red comes under yellow labs not a different kind of lab! Hard to write whats in my head sometimes
Christine,Spain

Ok, not thinking about genetics, but colors here.....
Wouldn't the reddish tones be more connected with the Chocolate side of the breed than the Yellow????
Primary colors --
Red makes browns (+ black blend together for depth of tone)
Yellow is its own spectrum.
toodles

Genes don't seem to follow the same lines as primary colours. Oh dam, I will have to go look it up. Don't really have the time, got a show to help run on Sunday. Ja:)kie

Go prepare for the show, Jackie :D It's just a muse, not a major inquiry
Good luck
:cool:

It may be a muse for you Sara, it's a dam big ? to me. But fear not I'll do what I must for the show first, that is, if I ever get off the net. Ja:Dkie

Ooops, didn't mean to start an obsession :D At least it's not an annoying tune stuck in your head
My muse though is more how the color is categorized/associated by people than perhaps the genetic principles
But I'm not a breeder/shower so I just could be completely offtrack :D
:Cool:

Don't think breeding or showing has anything to do with how we sense colour. Just how do we? Is what I see as red, the same as what you see as red. Oh! s*** thats something else to think about, I'm going for a lay down or should it be lie as I can't manage eggs. Ja:)kie

roflol Ja:)kie
Go and lock yourself in a dark room before your brain explodes :D :D
Sara

Colors can be confusing, I think, if overanalyzed.
I managed to pick it out from a very confusing professor in an astronomy class that basically the color that we see is what exactly is lacking from that color.
Black= everything BUT black
White = " " BUT white
Confused the hell out of me too

I blanked out in this class. The guy was the equivalent of a beginning College teacher educating kindergardeners!!!! We knew nothing before or afterwards. He was a genius, but he couldn't teach! He would fill boards with math equations and be so disapointed that no one else "saw" the message....similar to the binary joke for 31 Oct that went completely over me 'ead :D

Can see what he was getting at, have always thought that we call something red because that is what we have been told that what we see, as red, is called red. How do we know that what we see and call red is the same as others see and call red. Think it must be at least very simular or else design and art would have no meaning to us as a group. Must admit some peoples idea of colour mix does seem to point to colours not being perseaved (spelling) the same by some members human kind. Then again may be it's me. Ja:)kie

It could possibly explain why a woman would see "Terracotta" and a man would view the same colour as "red" :D
:cool:

Or even Green

I have been reading this one and am very interested. First I know that offically labs are only yellow, black or chocolate. However there are shades of these colors. The yellows can be darker or lighter and chocolates can come in almost a silver. I just recently saw a silver one and they are pretty. I think they fall under chocolate. Anyone know more about the silver/grey ones? While we are debating color... thanks.

The dilution of brown is Isabella (or Lilac if you breed rabbits)as in weimeraners.

It is the same as blue is the dilute form of black.

Welcome to the forum Waggin

Off topic I know, but as you are in Hawaii, I don't suppose you can tell me who or what is Makapuu's Pali?

If it is unprintable, can you email me :D

WAGGIN SILVRES COME FROM ANY COLOR CARRING THE THE SILVER GENES YELLOW MIX IS PLATINIUM BLACK IS DILUTED BLUE CHOCLATE IS MOUSEY SIVER IS PRETTY COOL SQUIRELY

Having had cataracts all my life, I had cataract surgery a few years ago, the prognosis for being able to see more wasn't good, but the doc thought the quality of what I could see would improve. I couldn't see what he meant until after the op.

I always thought I saw colours fine, well when the bandages came off I had to wear sunglasses at first, especially in shops, all the brightly coloured wrappers, especially bright reds and yellows made my eyes hurt. Pastels were no longer pastel to me, but garishly bright!

Also texture and depth of fabrics grass, dogs coats seemed increased.

I only have 20% sight, but it is 100% better than the 10% I had llived with previously. I simply cannot imagine how those with near perfect sight perceive the world through the sense of sight :D

Barbara, I'm so glad that your vision has so noticeably improved.
It might have been similar to me returning to my home in the Pacific Northwest after 3 years in the brown brown New Mexican desert.
The deeply intensive colors of region (blues, greens) hurt my eyes for the first week. I had to wear sunglasses to cut the intensity of the blues and the greens :rolleyes:

I cried when the airplane returned to Phoenix, AZ and I saw the continuous desert browns again It was a terrible feeling to know that there was such a world of color out there.
Everyone was complaining when we first arrived here in the month of March on how blah it was. Trust me, there's LOTS of colour here in Europe, even when things are grey outside :D :D
:cool:

I KNOW ALOT OF REDS COME FROM THE SILVER LINES

Admin Edit: Terms Of Service

There are (at least) four different genes involved in the true fox -red colouration, which does actually separate it from a straight forward yellow, and yes (!!) the locus for a silver allelle is actually involved in this, as a recessive to the fox-red dominant.

All is revealed on the site
http://www.labbies.com/genetics2.htm#Brindling

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

But at the end of the day Jo, no matter what genes are employed and no matter what "Colour" the geneticists calls the colour, the breed standard only calls for three colours. Black, Yellow or Chocolate/Liver! That is it! My own Lucy who was or the colour some people describe as "Fox Red" was registered as yellow and according to the Breed Standard, was correctly registered!

When talking genes, they have no "Colour" as such. They may impart a colour or share of colour but the term "Silver" Allele is just the name given by some geneticist to identify a particular gene or combination of genes.

John

I know that the standard states only three colours - it's just that each colour comprises a bit of a conglomerate of different genomes. Don't worry, John, I've not forgotten that the thought of a piebald (mosiac) labrador really blows your mind !!!

By the way, I think I'd better post your Crufts catalogue, as we've got a test on the next URC training day.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Pity you won't be at the training test Jo, I was going to set a really tough test for you to get my own back!

Regards, John

ANYONE NEEDING INFO ON RED LABRADOR...  I have a FOX RED LABRADOR which I stumbled upon in a mall no less.  He was sold as an unregistered yellow lab, but is far from it. He is a solid red as the irish setter or standard Golden Retriever from back in the day.  I am located in the USA.  He is not breed standards of course and for this dogs own sanity I was forced to Nueter him because I don't believe in breeding non-standard dogs adding to the over population of unwanted pets.  However,  waht I thought was a purchase of feeling sorry for the misfit puppy in the window has evolved into the most rewarding experience of Puppy Mill purchase "which I also don't support", but his B-day was 9-11-01 and I had another pair of puppy eyes on me at the time.  This dog is only 50lbs of energetic, agile, human-like, good natured love with a naturl instinct to search and mark.  Hence, the Red "working" dogs as others have stated must be inbred.  I am in law enforcement and I am trying to put this dog to great use either in Search and Rescue or Drug detection.  He has NO HEALTH PROBLEMS to date.  IF ANYONE knows of a breeder who has Solid Fox Red labs  I am interested in purchasing another.  I am not interested in the yellow red shading.  The one I have Is SOLID COPPER PENNY COLOR the only light marking is a few chest hairs (like five) and slightly lighter undercoat.  Anyone interested in pics  email me Ckosciuk@aol.com  ALSO,  the dog was bred in the midwestern states of US.  THe only other dog I've scene close to this one was a 90 lb retired Police K-9 I adopted years back.  He apparently was injured on the job and had seizures there after. 

Hey good luck in the search and rescue side and what a day for him to have been born on, it looks as though he was there ready and waiting for someone in your field of work to find him.  Keep us up-to-date on how he's doing.

i know a breeder that breeds fox reds, and i have to say when iv seen her pups they are lovely.

Wow,

Just looked at some websites, the fox red colour is lovely - reminds me of my old corgi - deep red with four white socks - you don't see them that colour any more.

Looking at the lighter red labs I seem to remember yellow labs that colour ( before light cream became all the rage ) my aunt had a gorgeous bitch.

HEY HO showing my age now

Dill

In the UK Fox Red in not a "non standard" colour, is it? Thought it was just at the red end of yellow if you see what I mean. Is it not allowed in the USA? All Labs are beautiful and the red is very striking but I would be sad to hear that it is not allowed anywhere, if it is as I believe just a shade of yellow it could lead to the yellows, particularly the deeper shades, becoming unpopular.

Offically it's yellow Jackie. The breed standard states:-

"Wholly black, yellow or liver/chocolate. Yellows range from light cream to red fox. Small white spot on chest permissible."

The AKC define what is allowed rather more the the UK KC but ever they list fox red as a shade of yellow. My fear is that FR will be the new "In" colour with all the problems assocated with commercial farming from a very small gene pool. Arising from what I would call normal breeding FR's are very few on the ground in the same way that choc's were almost unseen 50 years ago. My Lucy was one before the colour took off.

Best wishes, John

Fads and fancies do seem to do no end of harm, wonder how long before someone tries for a black Dalmatian with white spots. May be they already have. This desire to have something different is understandable when it comes to cars and furniture but pets, strange. We have people asking for strange or rare dogs and I often wonder why as there must be a breed that would fill the bill.

IMO this is the next colour to be abused by puppy farmers along with chocolates, in fact it is already happening